2014-05-04T01:00:24 *** Shinmera has quit IRC 2014-05-04T01:45:30 *** Mamizou has quit IRC 2014-05-04T01:45:57 *** Mamizou has joined #thcrap 2014-05-04T03:08:44 *** Nmlgc1 has joined #thcrap 2014-05-04T03:10:23 *** Nmlgc has quit IRC 2014-05-04T03:39:55 *** Ramnik5 has joined #thcrap 2014-05-04T04:25:14 *** Ramnik5 has quit IRC 2014-05-04T06:25:55 *** Karisa has joined #thcrap 2014-05-04T06:34:07 Hi, anyone here? 2014-05-04T06:34:10 A discussion recently came up-- is it all right to copy translations from Touhou Wiki to the patch translations, if they're more accurate? 2014-05-04T06:34:50 Some people there are saying the wiki's translations are better than the patch translations (though I can't verify that myself), but are concerned about copying them directly 2014-05-04T07:00:16 i guess you will have to wait on Nmlgc 2014-05-04T07:17:13 *** Ramnik5 has joined #thcrap 2014-05-04T07:23:53 *** Ramnik_ has joined #thcrap 2014-05-04T07:26:40 *** Ramnik5 has quit IRC 2014-05-04T08:01:43 *** Tosiaki1 has joined #thcrap 2014-05-04T08:02:58 *** Tosiaki has quit IRC 2014-05-04T08:14:54 *** Ibaraki_Ibuki is now known as Iberightbacki 2014-05-04T09:01:40 *** Shinmera has joined #thcrap 2014-05-04T09:11:31 *** Johnny7 has quit IRC 2014-05-04T09:25:56 *** Xoxx has joined #thcrap 2014-05-04T10:18:25 *** CyrusVorazan has joined #thcrap 2014-05-04T13:33:07 *** Nmlgc has joined #thcrap 2014-05-04T13:36:10 Karisa: http://thpatch.net/wiki/Portal:En << This is our policy about copy-pasting from Touhou Wiki. 2014-05-04T13:36:12 <[Bot]MagicStone> Title: Portal:En - Touhou Patch Center (at thpatch.net) 2014-05-04T13:37:04 Basically, I'm fine with it as long as your reason is that our translation has a clear error that would distort the meaning. 2014-05-04T13:37:21 OK, thanks 2014-05-04T13:37:38 Not sure if I should pass this along to the people in the discussion, since I'm not sure they know what they're doing 2014-05-04T13:38:59 If it's about things like Kobito vs. Inchling or Joururi vs. Shamisen Recital, I'd like to be more careful. They both seem like valid translation approaches that should co-exist, if possible. 2014-05-04T13:39:23 I seriously don't know what it's about 2014-05-04T13:40:01 It just came up in a discussion about DDC vpatch not existing yet 2014-05-04T13:40:21 Some people complained that the patch translation was less accurate than the current wiki translation, without naming specifics 2014-05-04T13:41:06 I don't know much about translation myself since I don't know any other languages 2014-05-04T13:41:35 But I thought it'd help to ask anyway 2014-05-04T13:44:07 I don't even use the translation patches for anything except spell card names and point numbers, anyway 2014-05-04T13:47:04 *** Ramnik__ has joined #thcrap 2014-05-04T13:54:50 The best solution seems to be for someone to open up their own patch server where they just copy-paste what's on Touhou Wiki, and keep everything in sync. 2014-05-04T13:55:42 In fact, the Touhou Wiki admins have expressed interest to do this themselves, but they seem pretty busy with other things right now. 2014-05-04T13:56:40 http://thpatch.net/wiki/Touhou_Patch_Center:Servers#Building_your_own_patch_server 2014-05-04T13:56:41 <[Bot]MagicStone> Title: Touhou Patch Center:Servers - Touhou Patch Center (at thpatch.net) 2014-05-04T13:57:23 Right now, this requires a Dropbox account created before 2014, but I'm working on making the scripts compatible with other cloud services. 2014-05-04T13:58:54 This is actually the direction I'd like to take in the future. Instead of one translation, there'll be many, each one with a different approach (literal, localized, and everything in between) that are fully controlled by the respective groups. 2014-05-04T13:59:53 It might be a bit early to do this now, since we still lack some kind of recommendation system - especially with all the tutorials just saying "pick lang_en from Touhou Patch Center". 2014-05-04T14:00:12 This is quite the interesting project 2014-05-04T14:00:35 Believe me, I do hate this terrible and sluggish wiki myself by now. :) 2014-05-04T14:00:36 I hope it works out eventually 2014-05-04T14:01:48 It'd be nice if the other games' patches were complete enough to be used by more people, too 2014-05-04T14:02:47 This is planned as well, but I've been too busy with overhauling the engine itself over the past few months. 2014-05-04T14:03:29 Unfortunately, we'd have to redraw all the English images used in gensokyo.org's patches for this, since they denied us the right to use them. 2014-05-04T14:07:15 Oh, so that's why? 2014-05-04T14:07:34 No idea why they'd do that, but I barely know anything about gensokyo.org anyway 2014-05-04T14:10:32 A lot of people still seem to be hoping they'll eventually update their replay uploader for DDC though, even though they never even finished implementing TD (no Overdrive replay support without editing the replay file) 2014-05-04T14:11:07 What specifically are the images again? 2014-05-04T14:11:32 http://thpatch.net/wiki/Th14/Images/en 2014-05-04T14:11:37 <[Bot]MagicStone> Title: Th14/Images in English - Touhou Patch Center (at thpatch.net) 2014-05-04T14:11:52 Basically, everything that has text in a different font than the one used for dialog and spell cards. 2014-05-04T14:13:26 Wow, that's more than I thought 2014-05-04T14:13:35 I didn't realize a lot of that text was image-based 2014-05-04T14:14:09 And it'll be even worse in 14.3, judging from the trailer. 2014-05-04T14:17:04 Now I understand why the earlier patches where the dialogue/spell name translation is already done, which seemed so close, weren't finished 2014-05-04T14:22:14 At least having this patch system as the only translation for multiple games, assuming it's finished for 14.3, might help increase the appeal-- right now the all-in-one system seems rather unnecessary in comparison to the previous English patches 2014-05-04T14:26:40 I designed it this way because this project was mainly focusing on non-English languages in the beginning, and it's better for those to have support for all games in one patch, especially when thinking long-term. 2014-05-04T14:26:51 I wonder if the need for images could be publicized more? I feel like this project is mostly seen as involving translation and/or changing the in-game datato 2014-05-04T14:26:58 *data 2014-05-04T14:27:03 Which potential graphic artists might not realize they can contribute to 2014-05-04T14:28:19 That's a good point, I'll think about that. 2014-05-04T14:30:19 The images are all that's needed to basically complete the English patches for th10-13, right? 2014-05-04T14:32:55 Some hardcoded strings might still be missing, and I may need to add some hacks to make everything look nice. And the images still need to be made available for translation in the first place, which I've been putting off for months :/ 2014-05-04T14:33:57 We're also missing translation of the 9.5 and 12.5 mission descriptions, but that'll be done in the next few days since 14.3 seems to use the same system. 2014-05-04T14:34:44 Also, spell cards for 9, endings for 7, 8 and 9, and 6 as a whole. 2014-05-04T14:36:37 You see, there's a lot of stuff left to be done, and everyone wants to focus me on something else. Some want support for older games now, some want a nice GUI now, some want workarounds for Norton antivirus software now, and I myself often want something completely different now. 2014-05-04T14:36:59 So it's mostly just you? 2014-05-04T14:37:22 Pretty much. 2014-05-04T14:37:52 Having trouble finding people who'd want to help out or are there other reasons for that? 2014-05-04T14:39:48 Yeah, there don't seem to be a lot of people left. Just look at the problems the 13.5 people are having to find people. Or the numerous demands for someone to just make a static English patch for th14. 2014-05-04T14:40:13 (Hint: The most efficient way to do the latter would be to build on top of thcrap.) 2014-05-04T14:40:43 *13.5 patch group 2014-05-04T14:41:08 I recall reading on the SA touhou thread that there's a shortage of people wanting to do translations or anything really in general. A shame, really. 2014-05-04T14:46:41 It seems the translation process itself gets done relatively quickly compared to implementation though 2014-05-04T14:46:49 At least from my not-looking-closely impression 2014-05-04T14:48:00 Yeah. With 14, our primary English translator, vgperson, was done long before the games were translatable on the wiki. 2014-05-04T14:48:28 I was also particularly slow that time, though... 2014-05-04T14:50:04 All in all, this is the best way I can see to promote translations, by removing the hacking part from the equation. And it definitely worked for non-English languages. 2014-05-04T14:51:06 And with 14.3, the actual challenge will be to unlock the translatable content in the first place. :) 2014-05-04T14:51:15 Why is that? 2014-05-04T14:51:52 It seems to work similar to the photography games. Remember that in 12.5, you had to play for a good while until you unlocked Hatate? 2014-05-04T14:52:03 I'm expecting something similar to happen in 14.3 2014-05-04T14:52:06 I'm sure someone will release a score.dat soon enough 2014-05-04T14:53:21 If it's like the photo games, a lot of success would be persistence, from what I've heard (I've never liked the style myself) 2014-05-04T14:53:33 And there are some very persistent players out there 2014-05-04T14:54:23 If there's one thing I learned from this fandom, it's to not expect the fans to do anything, no matter how dedicated they seem as a whole. 2014-05-04T14:54:28 There is the question of whether some special scene occurs for completing every spell with every item, or reaching max level on one/all items (assuming they level up as people are expecting), or something 2014-05-04T14:54:43 That'd be harder to get from a score.dat unless it's specifically prepared for that 2014-05-04T14:55:48 There'll always be the possibility to just cheat and get the scenes that way, but finding out these cheats might take a good amount of time, too. 2014-05-04T14:56:49 Anyway, as a MotK HME regular, I've seen people accomplish things pretty quickly after games are released 2014-05-04T14:57:30 I've also seen this thread about unlocked .dat files get nearly-filled very quickly-- http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16354.0.html 2014-05-04T14:57:31 <[Bot]MagicStone> Title: Looking for fully unlocked .dat donations! (at www.shrinemaiden.org) 2014-05-04T14:59:08 If you need one for 14.3, I'll ask around once I know there are people who have fully cleared it 2014-05-04T14:59:34 Thanks, I'd appreciate it. 2014-05-04T15:02:43 *** Ramnik__ has quit IRC 2014-05-04T15:07:07 Well, it was pretty interesting discussing this, even though I doubt I can contribute much besides whatever might be gained from talking about it 2014-05-04T15:07:53 To be honest, the way I got interested in this project was through its (partial) Swiss German translation, which is just the best thing. Hopefully I'll have the courage to contribute to that some day (or be useful in other ways). 2014-05-04T15:16:59 Oh, and I might help spread the word that the patch project is in need of translated images, if that'd help 2014-05-04T15:20:07 ... once they are actually translatable, yes. 2014-05-04T17:09:21 *** nortti is now known as driyoyleujiy 2014-05-04T17:09:28 *** driyoyleujiy is now known as nortti 2014-05-04T19:14:20 *** Iberightbacki has quit IRC 2014-05-04T20:19:38 *** Nmlgc has quit IRC 2014-05-04T20:43:30 *** Nmlgc has joined #thcrap