2013-02-21T00:05:42 *** fsvgm777 has quit IRC 2013-02-21T00:16:38 *** Ikubi_Ikarabi has joined #thcrap 2013-02-21T00:17:31 *** Ibaraki_Ibuki has quit IRC 2013-02-21T00:17:31 *** Ikubi_Ikarabi is now known as Ibaraki_Ibuki 2013-02-21T00:43:53 *** tosiaki has joined #thcrap 2013-02-21T00:44:48 Hello everyone 2013-02-21T00:47:12 hi 2013-02-21T00:47:59 Today, I once again learned the hard lesson of being careful when I take one friend to meet another, especially when I consider the personality of one of them. 2013-02-21T00:48:10 Actually, yesterday. 2013-02-21T00:51:22 It was quite painful to hear it when he said "over 9000" especially when the other person clearly wouldn't be someone who would be familiar with anyone of that. 2013-02-21T00:52:34 I guess that this is the general reason why I like seeking more "normal people" than the kind you find at the anime club―I guess that more painful than that, is their remarkable inability to take anything seriously, and to take a cynical view on everything. 2013-02-21T01:18:15 *** tosiaki has quit IRC 2013-02-21T01:21:13 *** Ibaraki_Ibuki has quit IRC 2013-02-21T01:33:21 *** Ibaraki_Ibuki has joined #thcrap 2013-02-21T01:50:54 *** tosiaki has joined #thcrap 2013-02-21T02:51:12 *** DeltaSierra4 has joined #thcrap 2013-02-21T03:19:53 *** Nmlgc has joined #thcrap 2013-02-21T04:11:34 *** DeltaSierra4 has quit IRC 2013-02-21T04:11:51 *** DeltaSierra4 has joined #thcrap 2013-02-21T04:18:31 *** Nazeo has joined #thcrap 2013-02-21T04:52:35 *** DeltaSierra4 is now known as DeadDS4 2013-02-21T04:57:38 \o 2013-02-21T04:57:46 \o 2013-02-21T04:57:58 * Nazeo starts install 2013-02-21T04:58:01 Just got the msg 2013-02-21T05:02:57 Hello everyone 2013-02-21T05:03:24 So yesterday, I made a very regrettable decision. 2013-02-21T05:03:31 *** DeadDS4 is now known as MomijiInubashiri 2013-02-21T05:04:05 I mentioned it earlier, about 4 hours and 10 minutes ago. 2013-02-21T05:04:48 *** MomijiInubashiri is now known as SanaeKochiya 2013-02-21T05:05:10 of? 2013-02-21T05:05:17 I guess that I do feel somewhat bad, when people are in bad situations are in need of help, but when people are in such situations, they clearly aren't the kind of people you want to take along with you if you want to make a good impression on other people. 2013-02-21T05:05:46 What's up? 2013-02-21T05:06:14 Ah... 2013-02-21T05:06:20 I said it about 4 hours and 15 minutes ago. 2013-02-21T05:06:23 Yeah, I see what you mean 2013-02-21T05:06:44 I showed someone episode 4 of the show Madoka Magica. 2013-02-21T05:07:04 I had to tell the other person who I brought along, "Yes, we don't need to talk about things other than explanatory stuff" several times 2013-02-21T05:07:29 Eh, it happens through community management. 2013-02-21T05:08:22 At the scene where Sayaka showed up as a magical girl, he shouted, "and now you just screwed up" (of course, a statement directed towards the character Sayaka). I cringed when he said that out loud. 2013-02-21T05:08:37 He said "and now you just screwed up" more than a few times. 2013-02-21T05:08:55 How many of you guys have seen that show? 2013-02-21T05:09:02 Nazeo hasn't lol 2013-02-21T05:09:05 * Ibaraki_Ibuki raises hand 2013-02-21T05:09:11 Ouch. 2013-02-21T05:10:19 I guess that what really wasn't so good about it was that I brought him to visit somebody's home. Not that he was terribly obnoxious or anything, but he did several things that clearly showed that he wasn't all that intelligent socially. 2013-02-21T05:10:52 Well, Madoka Magica is a short show that has caught my attention due to all the stuff on pixiv, but I never watched it until a few months ago. 2013-02-21T05:11:34 It was quite funny seeing some posts on Futaba talking about how many artists that used to do Touhou have "betrayed them" since they started illustrating Madoka Magica characters. 2013-02-21T05:11:46 I guess that I actually shared the same feeling at that time. 2013-02-21T05:12:12 However, Madoka Magica is not bad, I would say. 2013-02-21T05:12:31 Even though it doesn't have nearly the same "do whatever you want" feeling that you have with Touhou. 2013-02-21T05:13:01 Moreover, it's easier to introduce to people, because it's a show. 2013-02-21T05:14:10 Anyways, if there is a great reason why I wouldn't look towards getting more people from the anime club into my "activity" of illustration, it's because they are often too cynical about everything. 2013-02-21T05:14:14 *** SanaeKochiya is now known as Rubleless_Putin 2013-02-21T05:14:32 :< 2013-02-21T05:14:33 They talk about this trope or that trope all the time almost as if they're just mocking everything, and never talk about what they appreciate. 2013-02-21T05:14:55 ... 2013-02-21T05:15:00 Not that they seem like they are intending to mock everything, but in the end, it comes out that way to any observer. 2013-02-21T05:15:07 Let me introduce to you my good friend Nmlgc. He _may_ have some advice. 2013-02-21T05:15:42 Well, my approach so far has been to stop asking people from the anime club about this anymore, and to ask more "normal" people about this instead. It has worked somewhat so far. 2013-02-21T05:15:53 If I had any advice, I would long have said something... 2013-02-21T05:15:55 *to 2013-02-21T05:15:58 Bah grammar 2013-02-21T05:16:09 But Nmlgc~ This is rather similar to you. 2013-02-21T05:18:24 But Nazeo~ I have you to deal with people. 2013-02-21T05:18:31 ;_; 2013-02-21T05:18:52 I guess that up until recently, I just wanted anyone to join in my activity. But I guess that now, I realize that without defining what kind of social group I want to create, it won't lead to any good.. 2013-02-21T05:19:11 But Nazeo~ WHAT 2013-02-21T05:19:14 Then draw the lines then. Make apps if necessary for peeps to fill out. 2013-02-21T05:19:43 Apps are not necessary because I'm not advertising anything; the choice is only made whenever I decide to try to persuade someone to join it or not. 2013-02-21T05:19:53 the way I think of it is that rotten apples will be there regardless of the fanbase 2013-02-21T05:20:08 Well, the "persuade someone" is my advertising method for now, but in any case, it fundamentally involves chosing individuals to advertise it to. 2013-02-21T05:20:15 probably you'll get better at "sifting" as you meet more people 2013-02-21T05:22:12 Anyways, I think that fundamentally, I'm looking for the group of people who can properly appreciate a show like Madoka Magica, can feel passion for it, especially its characters, and I would be looking towards making the group more female than male. That would be what I would aim for the initial group to be. 2013-02-21T05:23:03 * Nazeo thinks 2013-02-21T05:23:26 good luck with that... I feel that mostly it'll be empty headed people randomly throwing tropes around though 2013-02-21T05:23:38 as is the case with large fandoms usually (and sadly) 2013-02-21T05:23:42 Putin, be more helpful >:C 2013-02-21T05:23:50 Furthermore, I think that I would eventually like to create something that can have exponential growth in its number of participants (i. e. people who are already participating would inadvertently contribute towards its growth, either directly or indirectly), and the nature of the activity will select the kind of people who will participate. 2013-02-21T05:23:55 Nazeo, be more realistic >:C 2013-02-21T05:24:20 game development? 2013-02-21T05:24:46 thpatch would probably count in some way, too. 2013-02-21T05:25:11 ^ 2013-02-21T05:25:38 Well, people won't be throwing around tropes if they don't know them. I have yet to see meet anyone from outside the anime club who was like that. 2013-02-21T05:26:23 Yes, the activity is called illustration. I'd suspect that only people who can feel a proper passion for the subjects of illustration would feel inclined to participate in such an activity. 2013-02-21T05:28:00 [shamelessplug]Um, we could need an in-house artist on thpatch.net[/shamelessplug] 2013-02-21T05:28:06 ^ 2013-02-21T05:28:29 At least in my mind, perhaps. It's not something that I have successful gotten off the ground on a large scale yet, so I can't say I know for sure. But I think that illustration is an activity of a very different kind than just watching a lot of anime and playing games a lot. 2013-02-21T05:28:50 ... well, it wouldn't grow exponentially, I think. 2013-02-21T05:28:51 I guess I could do some if necessary, although I only started about 1.5 years ago. 2013-02-21T05:30:28 If there is a reason why I think it can grow exponentially, it is because I think that the illustrations themselves are fundamentally advertisements for the activity, and thus the more people who participate in it, the more "material" there is, and also the more people who would be close enough to people who are already participating. This could be further enhanced by things that could be in public. I ca 2013-02-21T05:30:29 n't predict how it will grow (exponential is just a guess), but I sure hope it grows in some way. 2013-02-21T05:31:56 Well, indefinite exponential growth is an impossibility, but at least logistic growth, the kind of growth that levels off after everybody knows about it. (Any further talk about this would be wishful thinking on my part, so I'll stop here.) 2013-02-21T05:33:07 But yes, the main topic: managment of crowds. 2013-02-21T05:33:32 It has never been something I have done much, especially as someone who has not had much social interaction all my life. 2013-02-21T05:33:41 But I am definitely learning things. 2013-02-21T05:35:03 For example, if I want to plan to have a serious discussion with someone, it might be important to exclude people who might provide a distraction for the conversation. Either that, or one needs to be more assertive and cut off the distraction when that person tries to say anything. 2013-02-21T05:35:34 A very important thing, especially when the meeting is time-limited. 2013-02-21T05:35:35 Make a forum? 2013-02-21T05:35:40 Or something? 2013-02-21T05:36:00 Oh, I meant like meetings in a meeting room. 2013-02-21T05:36:46 Last week, I had a meeting with two people, and I intended to have a serious discussion with one of them. 2013-02-21T05:36:46 Ah. 2013-02-21T05:37:11 The other person was there simply because he had free time at that time, and I thought it might have just been a good idea to meet with more people. 2013-02-21T05:38:19 However, that other person (the same person I regretted taking to a friend's house yesterday) provided a lot of distraction by talking about lots of irrelevant things. I guess that from now on, I need to either be careful in excluding certain people when I have something important, or to be more assertive and cut people off if they start going off-track. 2013-02-21T05:40:02 I guess that all my life, I've always had a concern about being rude to others by interrupting them, and certainly how I appear to others is a great concern if I wish to persuade others. However, there are also times when not being forceful enough is definitely a bad thing. 2013-02-21T05:40:55 Do you have like meeting minutes and stuff like that? 2013-02-21T05:41:08 What is your organizational structure? 2013-02-21T05:41:58 So far, an informal one. I don't really have an informal structure, so the only "organization" is in my own self and in the various contacts I have with people. 2013-02-21T05:42:21 The reason why I can't say an "organization" exists yet is because they have so far only been communicating with me, and not so much each other yet. 2013-02-21T05:43:37 Of course, as I move forward, I wish to start up intercommunication, namely, through the common interest in illustration, although things have been moving quite slowly. 2013-02-21T05:43:58 Perhaps I just need more concentration, or something. 2013-02-21T05:44:41 It is definitely true that watching the show Madoka Magica with others is very time-consuming, so I've been looking for a less time-consuming alternative so that we would be able to focus more on illustration. 2013-02-21T05:46:33 If there is a reason for getting everyone to watch Madoka Magica, it is to create a common interest that people can feel sufficient passion for, but it is something that takes 5 hours. So far, I've started telling people to try watching it on their own time, but there's no way to guarantee that people will actually do that, but perhaps more illustration would encourage them to watch it. 2013-02-21T05:46:59 Make an essay? 2013-02-21T05:47:08 Or have them say something that proves they watches? 2013-02-21T05:47:11 *watched? 2013-02-21T05:47:13 *** KyoriAsh has quit IRC 2013-02-21T05:47:57 Perhaps get them to write down on paper that they'll try watching it. But even that is no guarantee. In fact, several of them have drawn Madoka characters without even having seen a single episode. 2013-02-21T05:48:02 *** KyoriAsh has joined #thcrap 2013-02-21T05:48:20 And this is a bad thing? 2013-02-21T05:48:55 In the fact that they wouldn't feel as much "passion" for it as they would if they actually did see it. 2013-02-21T05:49:26 Another possibility that popped into my mind is Vocaloid. It doesn't have a deep story, so it suffers from the fact that it doesn't really have anything that can make people deeply impassioned about it. But perhaps it would at least be sufficient to get something going. 2013-02-21T05:49:51 This really is like Primaries vs. Secondaries all over again, right? 2013-02-21T05:50:26 I KNEW that you knew Nmlgc. 2013-02-21T05:50:27 :P 2013-02-21T05:50:40 It popped into my mind because while meeting with someone, they asked me about music. And perhaps at least with music (i. e. with Vocaloid), it could at least provide something that can encourage people. 2013-02-21T05:51:23 *** Ruusento has quit IRC 2013-02-21T05:51:53 "Primaries vs. Secondaries"? 2013-02-21T05:52:04 .... 2013-02-21T05:52:11 * Nazeo can not stop laughing 2013-02-21T05:52:22 This is like, a classic example. 2013-02-21T05:53:27 I tried searching it up on Google, but I didn't get anything other than Robert Irwin. 2013-02-21T05:53:50 * Nazeo is forever laughing. 2013-02-21T05:53:54 Not laughing at you 2013-02-21T05:53:54 *** Ruusento has joined #thcrap 2013-02-21T05:54:13 Please do explain what it is. 2013-02-21T05:54:50 ... 2013-02-21T05:55:19 Nmlgc really is the best person for it. 2013-02-21T05:55:20 It's a rather common distinction in the Western Touhou fandom, mainly propagated by imageboard trolls. 2013-02-21T05:55:57 Secondaries are those who derive their interest and enjoyment of Touhou out of secondary material, like memes or IOSYS videos 2013-02-21T05:56:29 Primaries, on the other hand, derive their interest and enjoyment of Touhou out of actual, in-depth knowledge of the subject matter. 2013-02-21T05:58:08 I guess that sometimes, I do wish that people would understand more about how Touhou actually talks about meaningful stuff and not just "cute girls." 2013-02-21T05:58:54 Sometimes though, primaries kind of deride and oppress secondaries on occasions where they display their shallow knowledge. 2013-02-21T05:59:46 Thus, in my opinion, secondaries actually are happier people. 2013-02-21T06:00:38 This discovery then led me to leave both Touhou and MLP fandoms 2013-02-21T06:00:53 Lately, I have been reading some Touhou stories from yotogi.com (note: Japanese website, all Japanese stories), and I guess that you actually get more "in depth" than just primary material, as long as it is of the kind that explores characterizations and their world, etc. 2013-02-21T06:02:09 *** Tony64 has joined #thcrap 2013-02-21T06:02:16 hello~ 2013-02-21T06:02:22 Hello 2013-02-21T06:02:48 (Continuing) It seems like the "in-depth stories" do a whole lot in providing great passion for the subject. Whether it is primary or secondary. And both primary and secondary material can also be shallow. 2013-02-21T06:03:30 For example, there were a lot of stories that I read on yotogi.com that left a great impression on me for quite a while. 2013-02-21T06:03:43 The thing is, I did not care from the beginning. 2013-02-21T06:04:20 I merely forced myself to, because it was expected of me to be able to understand the subject matter. 2013-02-21T06:05:31 I may have been passionate about arranging Touhou music if it wasn't such an overcrowded and unorganized field. 2013-02-21T06:08:12 In any case, when it comes to what I wish to achieve, the main thing is to have enough "in-depth" material to create enough passion. Madoka Magica has more primary material, and it is the "primary material" that is most often easier to communicate and introduce to people who don't know anything about it. The reason for this is because we don't have a big "secondary works" culture where things can easily 2013-02-21T06:08:13 be transmitted through derivative works, mainly due to the lack of a big community for it (but, of course, which I am attempting to create). However, Vocaloid does have the time advantage of not needing a long time to spend on, so perhaps over time, it can become something "deeper" that people can feel greater passion for. 2013-02-21T06:09:35 I guess that it is for this reason what I am no longer attempting to introduce anyone to Touhou Project anymore, because "the time is not ready for it." 2013-02-21T06:09:36 *** Rubleless_Putin has quit IRC 2013-02-21T06:09:36 *** Rubleless_Putin1 has joined #thcrap 2013-02-21T06:09:46 *** Rubleless_Putin1 is now known as Rubleless_Putin 2013-02-21T06:12:05 *** Tony64 has quit IRC 2013-02-21T06:12:39 However, it is also true that I have not yet done a "field test" of my Vocaloid idea yet, so it is true that I don't have any data on whether it is a good idea or not. 2013-02-21T06:14:34 Oh, and by the way, this: http://www.nicozon.net/watch/nm4279726 ← I found it while playing a game called Yaruo Quest 5. It is in "English." Sometimes, I'm amazed by how often I like the "non-popular" Vocaloid songs over the popular ones. 2013-02-21T06:14:37 <[Bot]MagicStone> Title: 重音テト tries to sing a short fairy tale - nicozon (at www.nicozon.net) 2013-02-21T06:23:06 *** tosiaki has quit IRC 2013-02-21T06:32:04 *** Nmlgc has quit IRC 2013-02-21T06:47:56 *** tosiaki has joined #thcrap 2013-02-21T06:49:08 *** Ibaraki_Ibuki has quit IRC 2013-02-21T06:49:41 *** Rubleless_Putin is now known as MomijiInubashiri 2013-02-21T07:00:50 *** MomijiInubashiri is now known as DeadDS4 2013-02-21T08:55:01 *** DeadDS4 has quit IRC 2013-02-21T09:34:27 *** Nazeo_Aelko_Neze has joined #thcrap 2013-02-21T09:37:54 *** Nazeo has quit IRC 2013-02-21T10:50:09 *** fsvgm777 has joined #thcrap 2013-02-21T11:44:12 *** albel727 has quit IRC 2013-02-21T11:51:41 *** albel727 has joined #thcrap 2013-02-21T11:58:34 *** Nazeo_Aelko_Neze has quit IRC 2013-02-21T12:18:34 *** albel727_ has joined #thcrap 2013-02-21T12:20:52 *** albel727 has quit IRC 2013-02-21T13:49:09 *** albel727 has joined #thcrap 2013-02-21T13:49:22 *** albel727_ has quit IRC 2013-02-21T15:00:48 *** Nmlgc has joined #thcrap 2013-02-21T15:21:34 *** Tony64 has joined #thcrap 2013-02-21T15:24:35 *** Nmlgc has quit IRC 2013-02-21T15:35:37 *** Nmlgc has joined #thcrap 2013-02-21T15:50:57 *** tosiaki has quit IRC 2013-02-21T16:41:44 *** Tony64 has quit IRC 2013-02-21T17:01:12 *** tosiaki has joined #thcrap 2013-02-21T17:38:49 *** tosiaki has quit IRC 2013-02-21T17:39:04 *** tosiaki has joined #thcrap 2013-02-21T17:43:24 *** Nmlgc has quit IRC 2013-02-21T17:48:33 *** tosiaki has quit IRC 2013-02-21T17:48:44 *** tosiaki has joined #thcrap 2013-02-21T17:53:46 *** tosiaki has quit IRC 2013-02-21T18:39:08 *** tosiaki has joined #thcrap 2013-02-21T18:53:18 *** tosiaki has quit IRC 2013-02-21T19:10:07 *** tosiaki has joined #thcrap 2013-02-21T19:32:26 *** Ruusento_ has joined #thcrap 2013-02-21T19:32:29 *** Ruusento has quit IRC 2013-02-21T19:32:30 *** KyoriAsh has quit IRC 2013-02-21T19:34:49 *** KyoriAsh has joined #thcrap 2013-02-21T20:39:10 *** tosiaki has quit IRC 2013-02-21T20:39:19 *** toshiaki has joined #thcrap 2013-02-21T21:05:59 *** Ruusento_ is now known as Ruusento 2013-02-21T21:30:25 *** Nazeo|Work has joined #thcrap 2013-02-21T22:08:49 *** toshiaki has quit IRC 2013-02-21T22:09:14 *** toshiaki has joined #thcrap 2013-02-21T22:22:54 Nmlgc: I was wondering, should I add this channel for the thpatch here on Touhou Wiki's links page? Just something to think about. 2013-02-21T23:55:05 *** fsvgm777 has quit IRC